Someone’s Getting Paid – Why Aren’t You? (Includes How Much Mom Bloggers Are Earning)
There is more talk than ever lately about women (and especially mom) bloggers getting paid for the work they do. I’ve been in the middle of many of these conversations, from bloggers asking advice, to swapping stories with other bloggers, to pitches from brands to me. Many people have written eloquently about the need for women to get paid for their work – but no one has said what that pay should be.
This past week I filled out a survey for Kim Moldofsky of Mom Impact in preparation for her panel on monetization at Blissdom. This is the first time I’ve ever seen the subject of what bloggers are really getting paid addressed in such a straightforward manner. Since there are no industry standards the only way to truly know what is going on in the marketplace is going to come from surveys like this.
The other way to find out what people are being paid is to ask. Unfortunately many companies are trying to put an end to that. Recently a close blogger friend of mine told me that three recent contracts she signed contained non-disclosure clauses about her payment. While I understand why brands would desire this secrecy – we are a very small community and we talk – this seemed to me both extreme and pretty sneaky. Since we are required as bloggers to disclose sponsorship or ad dollars behind a review, post or ambassadorship then shouldn’t we be free to say how much that post was worth to the brand? And isn’t that transparency, or lack thereof, part of what makes the blog-brand relationship different from other journalists?
Every time you are approached by a brand, a PR firm, a marketing company or a collective there is money on the table – whether or not you are going to get any of it is up to you. I can’t say it enough – you HAVE to ask! And here’s what I’m going tell you from my experience and casual information gathering: expect $50-$200 for a sponsored post on your own blog, $50-$250 to write on another site, $500-$1000 per month for an ambassadorship. Now maybe these numbers look high to you, maybe they look low – you have to know your own traffic, the size and quality of the brand you’re working for, and the extent of your work. Are you also being asked to tweet, Facebook and Amplify your posts multiple times? Is this an entrée into this company that can lead to more (better paying) work down the line? What exactly are they asking of you and can you also work for a competitor and/or will the company have a say over content on your own site?
The bottom line is that you have to know your value. Just know that when a company approaches you on behalf of a brand they are being paid – oftentimes tens of thousands of dollars. You should be paid too. And a chance to win a gift card is not payment. No one is going to value you unless you value yourself. Sometimes it’s as simple as that.
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One thing to mention is that compete.com won’t give you any information if you are a .blogspot blogger. Pretty stupid if you ask me. Not everyone, like me, can afford to purchase a website name or have someone help me figure out how to make the change on my blog.
I find it irritating that some companies won’t work with you because you’re on Blogger. What? Because I don’t pay to NOT be on Blogger that makes me less of a blogger? I like the platform. Free is affordable to me.
The information in your post and in the comments is awesome, while at the same time very overwhelming.
What about when I reach out to a company to offer a review/giveaway? Should I also be asking for a monetary reimbursement for the post? Or just the product itself?
Could I set a limit that the giveaway product must be a certain dollar amount. For example, if the product is only $20 and I set a a limit of $50, then the company would have to giveaway at least 3 of the items. I have never done that with a company before and didn’t know how it would go over.
I have been offering reviews and giveaways for about a year now and would like to start making money for my time on writing the review.
Thanks for this post. This has really opened my eyes.
I took Kim’s survey and eagerly await the results. I’ve also run my first blogger outreach program and am thrilled to PAY bloggers for ad space with a reputable brand (if anyone wants to get on my list for paid blogger outreach email me! nicole@momtrends (dot) com). I’m also pushing brands EVERYDAY to compensate bloggers for helping to spread the word. When brands want to run a “free review” program I tell them that I am not a great match for them. If they want to say when and how the content appears that is an ad and it should be paid for. We won’t ever run paid reviews, but there are no free rides either.
It’s such a dynamic space–change is happening so quickly that we all need to communicate openly so everyone takes steps forward and no one is left behind.
And one last note, the #clickitforward campaign is a terrific way to generate revenue for bloggers. Read about it here:
http://www.momtrends.com/2011/01/mom-blogging-tips.html
Thank you SO much for posting this. It confirmed my gut instinct of what I resquested as a fee for a sponsored post ($50.) It’s interesting, the company approached ME and wanted me to share an online coupon. I came up with a great, authentic way to work their business into a nice post but they didn’t want to do a paid placement. So I thanked them and told them to contact me again if that should change in the future.
I was an English major in college. I put a LOT of thought and work into my posts. It is my perspective that writing sponsored posts is basically freelance writing work. Why on earth people would expect to get such services rendered for free makes no sense to me.
Wow I got even more information from all these wonderful comments as much as the article itself. Great for new bloggers (new to blogging) not writing like myself. I never would have even thought of asking for compensation because I just guessed I’m one in a million and nothing special, my uniques are in the 5000 range my hits about 11000 per month and growing but nothing other than average for most of us. My PR rank keeps dropping from 2 to 0 and again every few months and I’m trying to focus on good content to share and when a giveaway or product review comes up I’m learning to say no to what doesn’t interest me or doesn’t fit for my site and what I feel my readers would want to learn more about.
That being said though lately I have been feeling used. I ignore now campaigns that offer possible gift card wins. I blog with Mom Central and do not get paid but get to work with amazing brands and do get compensated with gift cards sent to me which is a nice bonus and I like them. And sometimes I will do a campaign for a smaller business (locally) one whom I know doesn’t have the means to supply a lot but one I feel residents of where I live can benefit from knowing.
I think as a blogger you have to do what is right for you and your site and visitors because in the end, it isn’t about money. I don’t feel I should work for free and Lord knows I put effort into what I do, being a caregiver for my son and husband having to quit my job I’m trying hard to balance the goal to make extra money as well as blog what content that is important for me to share.
Everything you guys have shared here is definitely food for thought and I have to go back now and look at which direction I’m going, where I want to be and aim maybe a little higher for both myself and those I work for.
Thank you :)
Awesome post! It does take a lot of time and effort sometimes to write up posts! Thanks for this information!
Thanks SO much for writing this! You are so right about so many of these things. I was shocked by those numbers and am going to ask more for my posts in the future! Thanks again!!
Great post, very motivating for bloggers to know their worth! I had a problem with actually “asking” PR companies for more when pitched, whether it be money or products to write about them. I got over it pretty quickly, realizing that I do not blog for “them” but really for ME!
I think that PR companies need to also recognize the value of mom bloggers and the amount of reach we actually have. Sometimes I get pitches that are 5 miles long telling me how great their product is, why I should review it, and please post this, this, this and this…
“We’ll send you a tank top from our line for review”!
(Then when I ask for further monetary compensation or an additional products to giveaway)
“Oh, sorry, we have no budget and cannot give out 2 items”.
So you are going to send me a tank top, set of bowls or a pair of hair bows or whatever in exchange for a post that will be seen by thousands online? I am expected to provide you tremendous exposure for next to nothing?? C’mon now. Maybe this works for bloggers who are looking for something free but it is kind of insulting to me.
Thanks for the insight, I’d love to see what other bloggers charge or expect for their posts!
Deanna
I love this conversation so much. I think it is so important for mom bloggers not to underestimate our time and energy. A blog can very much feel like a full time job (or a job and a half!) Yet for many of us it is a platform for other things. Or it is a creative outlet, or just a lot of fun. I think it is important to ask yourself what you expect from your blog? Do you want to make it a real business, or is it something else? Answering those questions help in terms of the idea of monetization, and one’s expectations.
I am growing wary, and think we all should be of companies who want to capitalize on our local knowledge, and our audience and then when you do the math, they are the ones actually making the money, not us! (Some affiliate programs are generous, many are NOT!) Beware, and do your homework. Before you clutter up your site, make sure it is worth it for you!
Thanks Rebecca for opening this discussion. It is an important one. I love Mom bloggers and it is so important that we keep talking.
First, let me thank you for clearing the smoke and posting ranges on a prominent blog.
And I want to point out that Dooce or Ree or any other “superstar’s” empire did not collapse and no one had to reveal their individual numbers to do this!
I disagree with your take on non-disclosure agreements. I can tell you about a range I make on campaigns without revealing how much The UPS Store or Elmer’s or anyone else I’m working for paid me for a given specific campaign. I’ve signed nondisclosure agreements before I was a blogger–usually about proprietary technology but sometimes about my fees and salary as well. It is pretty standard and may even be a sign that companies are moving towards treating bloggers who serve as ambassadors as “personalities” rather than as journalists or publishers…a move that may result in more bloggers getting paid for work.
That small quibble aside, I love what you wrote here.
Now that you’ve clarified fees, I think it may help to clarify a few more things.
When a brand is looking at a blogger, their value may lie in some combination of: audience numbers, audience demographics, audience loyalty, SEO rankings for terms, quality of writing, qualifications outside of blogging (being a medical professional, a teacher, a chef, etc.), etc.
Although the emphasis will vary campaign to campaign, a lot of these factors tend to group together…so a blogger who writes well, has something interesting to say, will TEND to have a larger and more engaged audience and a site that ranks higher in their niche for certain searches, and so on.
When people talking about “low”, “average”, “high” we start moving into the land of the vague again.
Bloggers who are new and have very small audiences and haven’t developed their voice yet probably aren’t getting any offers at this time.
So, I would say that these numbers are what the “average” blogger who IS getting paid is getting paid but that they may be “low” for campaigns in general (ie a starting point for campaigns for bloggers who have built their brand up enough to actually get paid).
So, let’s talk numbers? I find uniques more valuable unless you are talking about traditional advertising–in which case you might discuss hits.
I’m going to talk numbers that I’ve researched for clients, not what some mom bloggers are claiming for themselves. I’ve seen a number of people lying about their numbers, blowing typical UV traffic of 4,000 into a sizable 40,000. So, take that into account when you are looking at self-reported numbers.
1000-5000 UVs per month is low but has growth potential. People have found your site–if you are offering something of value, you will grow. Now, that may be decent for your “niche” but they are still low numbers for the general mom blogosphere. With high quality, audience engagement, and a perfect fit, you may still be offered paying campaigns.
5000-30000 is that great vast middle. You have an audience, you have influence. All but one of my blogs is at the bottom of this range, my other is at the top of this range.
30000-50000 is high for a solo mom blogger or a partnership of two mom bloggers.
50000-100000 these are numbers I usually see with networks / online magazines that have several sections and more than a dozen writers or for solo bloggers who are the biggest “names”
100000+ UVs is superstar status for a solo mom blogger, as far as I’m concerned, and is still fairly impressive for an independent magazine employing writers.
As far as Hits, I’d say that my blogs that are in the 4,000-6,000 UV range tend to have about 90,000 to 120,000 “Hits” (excluding bots). My blog that ranges 25-30K UVs tends to have 750,000-900,000 Hits.
Now, of course, if the campaign has a narrow focus (mom blogger nurses in Ohio, teacher bloggers in Fresno, CA, etc) then that changes the numbers.
Another place where clarification / specificity might be helpful:
Sponsored posts do not usually mean paid reviews. Sponsored posts are when a blogger writes content that is a fit for their blog but may contain reference to a brand and has a disclaimer at the top or bottom that the post was sponsored with a link to whatever microsite or campaign that brand has specified.
For example, a food blogger may publish an original recipe that uses butter and specify Land O Lakes butter and write a disclaimer at the end that Land O Lakes sponsored the post. Or they could write a reflection about the different methods of mixing they’ve used in their lifetime from hand-mixing to standard electric mixers to new mixers with buttons and features for everything and the memories this evokes and at the end could be a disclaimer about KitchenAid and a tagline for their new campaign about kitchen memories bonding the family’s generations together.
One thing I would love to see further discussion about is a sponsored post on your blog versus providing content for a corporate blog or microsite. I keep going back and forth on this.
As a professional writer from before blogs even were a “thing”, I know my writing has intrinsic value. I also have certain areas of professional expertise. I know what I am paid for writing bylined articles without any mention of my blog.
So, there are a few issues to tease out here:
If you are writing on your own blog, you are retaining the rights to the material, you are creating content on your own site. This would argue towards a lower rate for posting on your site than the corporate one.
Then again, you are closely associating yourself with the brand, putting them directly in front of your audience, and linking to them from your site. This would argue for higher.
On a corporate site, you are giving them the rights to your content and to use your image, your brand to promote their product within certain parameters. This would argue higher?
Then again, you are also getting a certain amount of promotion from them and it helps you build your own brand if the corporate brand is a good fit. You also aren’t using up space, expending as much of your social capital, etc. on your own site…this would argue lower?
Now that I feel like I’m in the Princess Bride…which cup has the poison? ;)
This is one I go back and forth on…any thoughts?
First off – thank you for this incredibly detailed and thoughtful comment. I love having these discussions. We talk about these issues every week on The Blogging Angels podcast and I have to say there are no easy answers or one size fits all numbers.
There is no doubt that compensation can come in many forms. When you are starting out working for “free,” meaning no money can be misleading if you are in fact building links back to yourself, building name recognition, becoming a voice in a certain niche or basically using the writing opportunity to be part of a larger community that may lead to bigger and better things. I myself started out writing for the NYCmoms site, part of the Silicon Valley Moms group – for free. I kept all rights to my content. But without them I never would’ve built my own blog, gotten many, many media and brand opportunities and met the women who ultimately became my podcast co-hosts plus many more on whom I count for mutual support and encouragement. One of the things that I think separates bloggers from regular journalists is the community. I cannot place a high enough value on that.
On the other hand when dealing with brands that is a whole different story. I think mombloggers were seen as a gold mine of free PR since they were willing to work for swag. At a certain point this is not OK. And it’s certainly not OK for huge intermediaries to be the ones pitching mombloggers as free cogs in the PR machines to brands.
I don’t happen to think most bloggers are journalists. Some certainly are but I agree with you that they fall more into the “personality” category. And this is where pay comes in beyond traffic. What is your twitter reach? Do people get excited about the things you talk about? Are they engaged on facebook and Twitter with you? Do you have a real life job (volunteer or otherwise) that gives you a large measure of influence over other moms and women in a face to face authentic way?
These are all factors too. Traffic is an easy thing to measure for sure, but just as lower rated cable channels like IFC and Bravo can command high ad rates for their coveted audience so can a blogger with a desired niche audience with high influence and trend setting ability.
I personally would (and do) charge more for writing on a microsite or brand site. I started my career as a copywriter for a large entertainment based ad agency. To me writing on someone else’s site and providing their advertorial or editorial content is freelance writing work like I have always done and I will charge accordingly. Especially since they own the content. To me that’s an additional right and charge.
However – I think your point about how much traffic is high or low can be a mystery to many bloggers and they may inflate their worth. I think plugging your numbers into Compete.com along side other bloggers who are getting the gigs you want can be very illuminating. But again, you are more than your traffic so it’s a good starting point and that’s it.
In terms of all the questions below about reviews. Many, many women I respect say you should NOT be paid for reviews. Period. I don’t believe that unless you are a serious consumer review type blogger and that is what you and your blog are all about. If you are an experiential blogger who writes stories about how you use something, not really giving the nitty gritty pro details and you disclose up front that you were given the product to keep I think you can review for money – but I wouldn’t call it a review. It’s more like a review “lite.” And you should be super honest. If you can’t honestly review it then don’t take their money and don’t do it. At the end of the day you are either an ethical person or you’re not.
If you want to check out a super disclosure page you should look at selfishmom.com. Her levels of disclosure are incredibly detailed and up front to both the readers and the brands.
Sponsored posts are a whole other thing. I love getting creative ones that are basically a fun creative writing assignment with a tag line attached. I hate when they are one giant advertorial. But if you feel the money is right and it fits your blog then as long as you fully disclose you are OK in my book. We talked a lot about this in last week’s Blogging Angels podcast – and also about signing up with blog collectives who offer many of these opportunities.
You have given me a lot of material for more articles in the coming weeks!
Thank you for your reply! I want to clarify that I don’t think any blogger (of any size or experience) should “work” for “free”. Now “work” and “free” could vary from person to person but in general, newbie bloggers without prior relevant experience and built-in ready made audiences are not ready to do “work” for pay. That doesn’t mean they should work for free. They should concentrate on honing their voice, building their audience, etc., on their own blog and then seek paying gigs when they are ready. I don’t consider writing about my own ideas / thoughts / life on my own blog (without brands in the equation) to be working for someone for free, it is building value for yourself.
I think you also mention a unique aspect of blogging in your reply–the community. If I guest blog for a bloggy friend, I don’t consider that working. If I have the time, I’m happy to help.
I think even if, or maybe especially if, you focus on reviews, you would want to tread carefully in terms of getting paid directly for reviews. Even if you can be objective and be paid directly, it has the *appearance* of a conflict of interest. If a person wanst to be paid directly for reviews, then they are better off working for a third party who generates income through other revenue streams and then pays their writers to write reviews.
I recently turned down a pitch for a product where the sponsored content just got too close to a paid review for my comfort…I agree that there are several, somewhat fluid, categories of paid posting: the “writing assignments” with a tagline, the “advertorial” where they tell you what to say and you write it in your own voice, and the “paid review” where you are writing about the product and are compensated but you are still giving your own (hopefully honest) feedback. I think they can all be done (with disclosure) but that there is a backlash against the paid review in the blogosphere…the advertorial is an ad and appears even in the New Yorker magazine but I think they need to be clearly marked (perhaps even a different color background) and used sparingly and personally I am not doing these at this time…and then the writing assignment, which is where I think things are heading and could be very positive for brands and bloggers, alike!
And yes, numbers are not everything–I agree 100% They make it easier for agencies who haven’t been given the hours to be more holistic in their measurement. And in a general pool they are a place to begin. Also, if we are talking about relative terms like “big” “medium” “small”, etc., newbie bloggers probably would like to hear some specific numbers…with the caveat, of course, that this is not the end-all-be-all!
When agencies and brands take social media seriously, they look for bloggers who are a fit…and numbers are just a small piece of that puzzle. I think we can help by sending the message that these are the companies with which we want to work and not just working for cupcakes or a low rate because we feel honored a company wants to work with us.
what is the difference between a user view and a hit?
thank you! (this was very helpful information btw.)
I’m a little late to the party (I just discovered this site) but I thought “UV” meant “unique visitor”, not “user view”.
I’ve been blogging for almost 8 years, but I do it because I enjoy doing it, not to get “paid” or to “work”. I’ve never considered making money from my blog, because that would take away from my “real” job, and unless I somehow became a “superstar” blogger, I couldn’t ever imagine a scenario where I would make more money blogging than I do in paid, outside, employment, but it’s interesting to read posts such as this.
I think it would also be extremely helpful to have some type of generalized stat ranges, especially for those that are newer bloggers. What seems like great traffic to some may not be to others and that will certainly make a difference in payment. Of course subscribers, page rank, audience engagement, social media, etc. all play a big part as well so ranges for that would help too.
I think once we reach a certain point we forget how well we are doing and only see what we could be or think we should be. And then our numbers don’t seem all that impressive anymore and it gets harder to gauge. After blogging two years I’m definitely guilty of this and sometimes I wonder if I don’t ask enough because I can no longer see myself objectively. (I do fall in your given range.) It also might mean that a newer blogger seeing 3k uniques a month think they should be paid $150 a post because in their mind that is a great stat and they don’t know any different. Am I making any sense? :)
In some ways blogger pay is just like any pay – you get what the market says you can get. A blogger seeing 3K uniques a month with high Klout, visibility across other high profile sites, high income desirable demographic audience can certainly ask for $150 and back it up with that info. A brand can say yes or no. But, if you think that is what you need to do the work then ask for it. If everyone keeps saying no you have to rethink your ask.
Very interesting and informative. I have been approached by 3 companies to do reviews on my newbie-ish blog and while I find the idea exciting, I want to make informed decisions and not just accept an offer because it was offered. This post validates my decision to turn down all three.
Thank you all for sharing your opinions and wisdom, I appreciate it!
Ask yourself – is this a brand I want to work with? Who else are they working with? Can this lead to more (better) work down the line? It can’t just be about money in the beginning – or ever – but look at it from all sides and then make a decision. You can also be honest with them and ask them those questions too.
Great post — thanks for the insight.
I am a newbie (6 months) and now are being approached for product reviews and giveaways. Should I be charging albeit a small fee to endorse a product? Help!!!
Are you endorsing or reviewing? There’s a difference. An endorsement means you already know you love it and you want to tell the world. A review means you will try it and write about your reactions and experience. Think about why you want to review something and if they are giving you the product and that product is of value to you that is compensation as well. Also, it must fit your blog.
Good luck!
It is just so frustrating!! :-( I am a PR 4, my Alexa isn’t bad, my followers are growing, but I am not making money. What in the world am I doing wrong? :-( Seriously, I am in tears because I KNOW I have to be doing something wrong. :-(
Hi Kelli,
First off, I think it’s important to understand how PR firms/Advertisers look at sites so you know how you compare with other and how to market yourself.
Let’s start with page rank (PR). PR is used by Google as a rough measurement of a given page’s importance. Note that it measures a page’s importance, not a site’s importance. So a huge site like CNN may have a PR of 9 for its homepage, but a PR of 1 or even zero for individual article pages. Since PR isn’t used for measuring overall site importance, and doesn’t correlate directly with traffic, it isn’t relevant for Advertisers.
Alexa rankings are one way to measure your traffic relative to other sites, but what advertisers really want are your ACTUAL traffic numbers. Specifically, unique visitors (UV) and, sometimes, page views (PV). Some people mention “hits” in other comments here. But “hits” are really a remnant from the early days of the web and reflect the number of times a call is made to load a file. Since one page may have anywhere from one to a zillion files, “hits” has no relevance for measuring actual site traffic.
The most standard way to measure UV and PV is with Google Analytics. Chances are your blogging platform either has a Google Analytics plug-in or there is a way for you to easily add it yourself (assuming you know, or are willing to learn, a little html).
Once you have Google Analytics in place, now you’ll have real numbers both to understand your traffic and speak with advertisers. Want to know more about how your traffic compare with other sites? Go to compete.com or quantcast.com for free traffic analysis – the numbers are often a little off (unless the site is has quantcast tags embedded), but they’re close enough in most cases.
Hope this is helpful!
Josh, I really like your answer. And Google Analytics are seriously great!
Thanks for the the payment guidelines!
I just recently learned to say no.
I am not “just” going to post about this new product, just because someone asked me to.
I am not going to review something and then send it back. There is no value in such review for me.
Good for you! Saying no can be so, so freeing! Your time is valuable. Being good to your readers is valuable. If it doesn’t feel right then it isn’t.
Very often, through a few questions and a bit of negotiation, you can turn a “no” into a “yes.” Both brands and PR agencies need to learn how to measure social media value (even if it’s not ROI). But the answer, when someone asks for work, should be: “Could you help me understand just what you’d like so that I can estimate my time?” Then listen very carefully. If you think that what they request will take, say, 4 hours: “Yes, I know we could get some nice results for you (always ‘we’)…do you have a moment to discuss my fees? I think you’ll find them quite reasonable….” This isn’t exact but a basic book on Handling Objections can help a lot:-))
Great article and great points.
This in a excellent article Rebecca, thank you.
Since there are no industry standards this is excellent for us bloggers who have been squeamish about the whole getting paid thing. Oh we want a payday but because we don’t know what is too much or not enough, many of us (myself included) haven’t asked. These guidelines give me a little backbone, let me know where to start.
I can’t make it to Blissdom, but would love to read the notes on this one.
This is great information. Very informative comments. Thanks for sharing ladies. I am a newbie and want to really get started blogging for dollars but am still treading the waters to learn where to begin.
The Neophyte Writer (http://kristibernard.wordpress.com)
If your opinion is worth hearing, you write well, and you have interesting topics the companies will find and approach you.
Quality content is a must and if you have built a strong following and want to endorse a product you actually beleive in, there is no shame in being compensated for it.
I don’t even want to be compensated monetarily, I just want to find out how to do product reviews for companies. I’m especially interested in finding companies that want me to review products geared towards pregnant and postpartum women. I’m starting my third surrogacy journey, so I’d like to figure this out before I get pregnant with the intended parents baby.
Help? My email is alison23 at comcast dot net – THANK YOU! :)
I think you have to think about why you want to review things. It sounds like you want the products for free. I don’t know if that’s what you’re actually saying but that is how it seems. I would say first of all – wow to you for being a surrogate for a 3rd time. That’s an amazingly special, generous and unique thing to do. Is this what your blog is about? If so it is certainly a natural fit for those products you mention. However, companies don’t want to feel like someone is reaching out to them just to hit them up for stuff.
I would create a pitch letter. Tell them about yourself, why your life experience is unique and your voice is an important one in the blogosphere. Link to posts that would relate directly to their product. Then tell them you would love to review their products and give your audience a first person, hands on story about how their product made a difference in your life.
Hope that helps and best of health and luck to you!
Here is the question I would ask. What is the protocol for going around the PR person? If one more person tells me that a major packaged company doesnt have money to pay I would like to tell them thats BS. I used to work in advertising and I know what budgets are so for them to tell me that they cant pay a blogger less at. 01% of a 10MM budget is just a lie.
I want to go directly to the brand and bypass them to pitch the product manager directly.
Is that what bloggers are doing are they still pitching PR contacts they have made?
This is a very interesting question and one I’d like to hear more about.
To me, I can usually tell whether a person is in-house PR (and may have contacts in other departments), a social media person working on a specific campaign (who may have access to a portion of that budget or be working closely with the people who do), or an intern or junior at a major PR firm that is only empowered to push out a press release or offer samples for a very specific campaign with that giant company, which probably employs dozens of other PR agencies.
It never hurts to pitch back or to try to get to the right contact for what you want to do but it may go nowhere if that person is so far distanced from where you want to get with that company.
I think the “protocol” would be to ask them to put you in touch with the right person / department and/or find that contact on the corporate site or LinkedIn. You aren’t really going over the PR person’s head, IMO, if you are pitching something entirely different than what the PR Person is proposing.
A lot of social media teams / PR people are being told specifically that the company does not want to pay bloggers, period. I’ve heard this directly from a few company reps and from other bloggers, etc. These companies are viewing us as “earned media” and any payment is seen as poisoning the well. You could try to educate them about how some bloggers can be ambassadors/spokespeople or consultants on a campaign but if they have it stuck in their head that blogger = ordinary consumer journaling = earned media, they may not hear your message.
I totally agree. First of all that is the problem with many Expo Hall areas of blogging conferences. The people manning the booths are not high enough up to actually make real decisions so that contact is not going to be able to brainstorm and work with you. There are exceptions of course but for the most part you’ve got to just do your own research. Like Candace suggested Linked In is a great place to start. I think the frustrating thing for bloggers is that some companies think of them as journalists and as such they would never, ever pay for coverage. However, journalists are paid by SOMEONE. And that is why I don’t really consider most bloggers journalists. They are their own category and that is being defined every day by both the bloggers and brands. It’s why I think this money discussion is so important for all sides. I hate that it’s even considered “sides.”
The truth is that the most productive and satisfying experiences for me have been with brands where it felt like a partnership. When you can have a real discussion with PR or marketing people about how you can creatively benefit each other it is much more exciting and productive then trying to get $100 out of someone for a sponsored post.
I think this is a great. I am asked questions by other bloggers quite often now what I would recommend they charge. I’m much happier just pointing them to this article!
I’ve watched this debate from afar for awhile now. I think your post is the start of an important discussion re setting pay standards/scale and relating that to a set of measurable factors (reach, audience, unique views etc). Many industries have set such standards (PR for example). It’s probably time that ‘mom bloggers’ organize themselves as a viable industry entity and do the same.
I am eagerly awaiting hearing this at Blissdom! Those figure look about correct to me.
Money is such an interesting topic. It’s good to know the ranges, but I agree that it ultimately boils down to value (on both sides – blogger and brand). For instance, on occasion I will accept gigs that pay less than my personal rates IF I especially value the relationship with the person running the campaign. Without fail, it always evens out in the end…
It’s kind of like it’s good to know the general “rules” so that we can make educated decisions regarding whether or not we want to break them :-) It’s the beauty of being your own boss…
Yep, I am all about the “value exchange.” Each party should feel like they’ve contributed to and benefited from the project. Unfortunately, this is highly subjective and varies from project to project, so that makes it difficult to create standards.
Rebecca,
As usual, you absolutely rock! Thank you for being so candid and for putting this out there. I also love reading Ellen’s perspective and think her point about having a targeted following is well put.
Thanks!
Very informative, as always. I’m glad to see my pricing structure is in line, for the most part.
Wow! This is so timely for me. I’m about to submit a quote for my services as a ghost writer for a blog which would require 2 300-500 word posts a week as well as an archive of 10-15 posts for a tourism company. This gives me a better idea of what to ask for.
I of course find all of this discussion interesting and I’m curious if things will evolve enough over time such that there will, in fact, be standards commensurate on experience… similar to how you would make salary asks depending on how many years of education, how many years of work experience, etc., you have. At present it’s just so free wheeling because of the relative new’ness of the industry and I admit that I think that things become further muddled when people either overvalue or undervalue their work (I see it happen a lot in both directions).
I think your ranges look right for the average, not newbie, good following, good writing skills blogger. There are always those superstars that would look at those numbers and would (and have) snorted that they won’t even open their laptops for less than a thousand bucks, but for the rest of us in the trenches trying to make a living those numbers look right to me.
Also, to address the very first comment by Blessing@WorkingMomJournal, in my experience money is only an issue when writing about or for brands; the bloggers who want to write for the sake of writing and for having a voice don’t really enter into the equation for the “what should I get paid” discussions. It’s not that NOT getting paid is bad. It’s that working as free labor and being taken advantage of by a company is bad.
I really would love one of the “I won’t open my laptop for less than $1000″ to step up and be heard! If someone were honest enough to say that and say how they got there and what it took I think it would be well worth listening to. And I mean good old writing – not video series or a campaign.
Those rates are low in comparison to ones negotiated by Federated Media for all of their parenting bloggers (they are a sliding scale by traffic, but they are all higher than that), as well as ones offered to bloggers (of medium traffic) by Edelman PR.
Based on what I get and what people I know get the high end of the range is right, but I tend to talk about this stuff with people who get roughly the same traffic as I have. You’re probably talking to people with a lot more traffic. Numbers are another taboo subject so it’s hard to get a sense, but I’m guessing I’m on the low end traffic-wise of people who try to make a living at this.
It depends, actually, that’s part of what is so frustrating about all of this, because you’d think it all has to do with traffic, but that is not always the case. For example, with sponsored posts, It depends a lot on where you are getting the sponsored post deal from. If you get it from a typical ad network, the high end of that range is right for most mommybloggers except the highest traffic deals, who wouldn’t probably be dealing with those networks anyway.
But you could be a blog of only 30,000 pageviews a month at Federated and get a sponsored deal for more than that, depending on who you are and who the client is. And at least with Edelman, who vets their placements extremely carefully, their placements are much higher paid, even at that same traffic level (about 30,000 pageviews), provided the writer has a really good relationship built up with their audience.
Really? I’d love details. I have never worked with Federated Media, though I know many bloggers who do. By medium traffic what do you mean – 10,000 uniques? 15,000?
Also, I should say this is Federated Federated, not the back door through Clever Girls Collective. I don’t know the numbers for those deals.
OK. See I think a lot of mombloggers out there typically have 3500-6000 hits and are doing well in terms of getting pitched or getting approached but still have no idea what to charge. Most mombloggers are not seeing 30K in views a month.
I’m definitely growing, but nowhere near the 30k views in a month. I often feel like I have to ‘pay my dues’ and do reviews and giveaways (for nothing more than the product itself) before I can get any sponsored posts – which I’m happy to do by the way. But I can’t help but wonder what that magic mark is where I’m finally getting enough traffic and a large enough following to step out more for sponsored posts and start actually getting paid in $ instead of product. I’m learning so much from some great blogging buddies I’ve found. I REALLY appreciate this post and the comments here too.
Very good point. I am just glad, some of us are not doing it for the money, so to speak. We just want to have a voice on the blogosphere as well.
Thank you for this great post!
I’m fairly new to blogging and I’ve always wondered how much LOL… also, what does “ambassadorship” entail?… Thank you very much! I enjoy reading your advice!
Ambassadorships can entail many things. Usually attending at least one event for a brand, receiving products throughout a time period and agreeing to write about them and putting a badge, link or ad on your site promoting the brand. Some people work for product because they love the brand and see the value in that – but personally I think if you’re doing long term work for a brand and are basically a spokesperson for them then you should be paid accordingly. You have to weigh whether the products you’ll receive (or relationship, status, linkage) are equal to the amount of work expected of you.
Thank you!
Wow, what an eye opener. Thanks for sharing. I had no idea how much one should charge when approached or that they just offer a gift card or chance to ‘win’ one. lol Incredible.
As owner/founder of a mature promotion/marketing agency with a portfolio of long-time national clients (listed in my Linkedin Profile: /in/ellenelwell), I have a lot of perspective on this subject. But the most important thing to remember is this: most big corporations and brands don’t participate in social media. And with some exceptions (Coke, Huggies, Disney etc.), they are skeptical about both soft value and paybacks. If a brand decides to jump in, they’ll generally look to their ad, PR or website agency(s) for support because of trust and track record. And even then, they’ll allocate just a tiny percent of their overall marketing plan and budget to social media.
As for monetization, the brands keep looking for Return on Investment (ROI) on every single part of the marketing mix. So to get paid by a brand directly, you must be able to do some sales math. You need a large number of Targeted Followers (e.g., moms, dads and influencers like pediatricians) as a basis – not just a large or mass number of Followers. And then you can build your “case” (generally a power point presentation) from there. It’s essential to prove that you have the reputation, writing ability, selling attitude and track record to make a difference in brand perception with the target audience.
Summary: what you get paid will depend on the brand’s understanding of what your work can contribute to bottom-line sales. Social media is judged like any other key part of the marketing mix. This isn’t my favorite reality, but it’s what’s out there.
Ellen Fantastic reply. I love the “what you get paid will depend on the brand’s understanding of what your work can contribute to bottom-line sales” I have a friend who is very demanding and thinks that just because she has a blog, she deserves to get paid. love your perspective based on experience
Thank you for this detailed and thorough response! I think your point of view as a smaller brand is really important. Many mombloggers do not approach brands directly but instead work through intermediaries who are executing the campaign on behalf of a brand. That is where I think many mombloggers are more likely to be taken advantage of – i.e. writing for a chance to win a basket of stuff or a gift card. In that case I think those “marketing” companies are the ones who have the ethical obligation to make sure the blogger is compensated in a fair manner commensurate with their experience and ROI potential.
I completely agree that when a blogger works directly with a brand there is a much bigger onus on the blogger to prove and demonstrate to a brand why they should invest their limited marketing and PR dollars in that blogger. And every blogger should have that answer or they are not yet ready to play on that level.
But, either way when mom bloggers are part of a brand’s marketing and PR strategy they shouldn’t be looked at as free labor or they aren’t exactly getting any ROI either.
Ellen, I love that Rebecca wrote such an insightful post and you were able to provide an Agency perspective. With limited budgets it makes sense that brands require an understanding of the ROI before they will offer compensation to any channel. But I think that the point of Rebecca’s post is that many bloggers are being compensated by brands (or collectives, like Clever Girls Collective). So it is within this context that Rebecca’s article is so informative. When a brand does reach out to me, what type of compensation should I expect — and more importantly, how much should I *ask* for!
Anyway, great post and great response!
Laura, Rebecca and Cori ~love your responses. Rebecca, this is a marvelous dialog!
I totally agree that when a brand agency “subs” (subcontracts) the social media work, they should pay well. In fact, I will go so far as to say that I believe the blogger should get 80%-85% of the total charged to the brand. For the agency to take more is actually usurius because it amounts to a hoggish markup. It’s a time-honored practice for an agency to mark up 15% (max. 20%).
Whenever my agency has needed freelance help (copy, illustration, IT, etc.), we’ve asked for a bid. If it’s too high, we discuss why. When we arrive at an agreement, we issue a P.O. to the sub and mark up the service 15% (our fee for the actual service). If we feel that more is warranted – e.g., extra supervision and direction, many revisions, etc. – we add an amount to our Program (or Project) Management fee – always a line item, even for retainer clients.
I started out with the intention of being a freelancer. I’d been with IBM, had a baby, and was in marketing by education but wrote copy by passion (for them, too). As soon as I hung a shingle, so to speak, I went out to start selling my services. Within weeks, I had a major contract with Frito-Lay (here in Dallas) and the rest became history.
BUT I had no idea what to charge. And this is always a major concern when establishing any quotation. But as a freelancer or sub, it MUST start with: 1) your hourly fee, and 2) your own estimate of total hours. This becomes a “fixed fee” and should be written up as a formal quotation (1 simple page)…and the client AND you must sign it and keep copies. Then, when you invoice, you’ll get paid.
This is the #1 Rule in billing. Estimate, Write it down, Get the client signature. Then attach a copy to the invoice.
Can you tell I’ve been there, done that about a thousand (or more) times? School of hard knocks. LOL!
Good luck, Moms. I wish I had time to write a paper on the billing process and cycle. I know that it’s a major heartache (or happiness). ~Ellen
Great post! I am new to blogging but wondered what some do charge.
It’s funny how reluctant people are to talk about it. Half the time I think everyone is just making it up as they go along – brands, marketers, publishers, bloggers. It’s very new and certainly not on par with traditional magazine writing but then again from what I’ve been hearing print media is paying about half what they used to.
This is a great topic. I’m solicited often, and never really know how to charge. Wish I could see the panel….will it be posted for us to see after? Thanks again!
I will check into it for you, but usually there are a lot of post conference wrap ups, and I will definitely report in here next week about Blissdom and what I learned so all my readers can benefit!
It IS all about asking other bloggers for help in determining what to ask when you’re doing freelance work. Over the years I’ve been lucky to have a few traditional writer friends who’ve shared with me what they were getting for blogging and recipe development.
It’s also about having the confidence in your talent, hard work and reach to ask to be paid what you are worth.
Very interesting, thank you so much. I wonder if the figures change based on location, the mom’s education or work-background (and not just the blog stats)? Is that even asked when payment is discussed?
Well, I should hope that there is a consideration of quality and who your audience is. I think a company just interested in a lot of links and upping their google presence is very different from a real campaign that wants to engage and interest readers and entice them to buy or try a product. The big thing is to ask for what you really need to make the post or work happen. It’s up to them to say yes, no or let’s rethink what we want.
Thanks for the shout-out, Rebecca. I encourage bloggers to share their experiences (anonymously, if they wish) on the compensation survey.
As Sommer Poquette, the Blissdom Panel Presenter, co-panelist Esther Crawford and I started fleshing out our session, it seemed that if we wanted to talk in real dollars–and we did!–, it would be wise to get input from the community. As you note, there do seem to be wide ranges in terms of what people get paid. I look forward to sharing more at our session. I’m sure we’ll be sharing the data in other ways as well.
I can’t wait to hear the data as well, Kim. This is very interesting.
Soooo interesting! I wish I could hear this discussion this week. Hope you share it or the date afterwards!
Great blog post too! Such an interesting topic!
Also hoping that a feed or a transcript will be made available to this presentation. Wow, this actually makes me bummed I couldn’t make blissdom this year! :(